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#16 2010-12-13 23:57:03

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

This subject is not as simple as it may seem. Some team members are concerned about the fact that Piwigo sends data without warning user (even if they understand that there is no personal data, just server and technical data). If team members feel concerned while they know we are only collecting this data for statistics purpose and nothing else, it is legitimate to consider that people outside Piwigo team will see this as attempt to steal information, sort of.

Just to get an idea of what other web applications were doing, I've investigated on WordPress. When WordPress checks for new core/plugin/theme updates, it sends to wordpress.org : the blog URL, the WordPress version, the PHP version, the MySQL version, the default language, the default theme. And there is no option to deactivate that, as far as I know. You can read very interesting discussions about what is called the "Phone Home" feature: WordPress Phone Home & Privacy. I don't blame WordPress or anything, I think it's interesting to know what is done on one of the best known opensource web applications.

I don't want Piwigo to get any negative feedback due to this feature. So I propose the 2 following changes:

1) on the installation screen, add an option (checked by default) to ask agreement about sending extra technical information

2) on the available plugins page, if the user has not given her agreement/disagreement at installation time (for an upgraded Piwigo)

http://piwigo.org/forum/showimage.php?pid=117552&filename=hosting_details_question.png

I think this is a bit aggressive, but I have no other idea for the moment.

What is your opinion?


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#17 2010-12-14 09:03:25

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

On my local copy, I've changed the display of extra data:

Are you OK to send anonymously a few extra technical data to piwigo.org for statistics purpose? Here is the list of extra data:

    * os Linux
    * pwgversion 2.1
    * phpversion 5.3.2-1ubuntu4.5
    * dbengine MySQL
    * dbversion 5.1.41-3ubuntu12.8

Your gallery URL is not sent, we use a computing method to make you unique and anonymous at the same time.

I directly use the output of the get_hosting_technical_details() minus uuid.


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#18 2010-12-14 17:21:54

P@t
Piwigo Team
Nice
2007-06-13
4098

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

With this agreement message, I'm sure that the vast majority of users will answer "No, thanks".
I don't understand where the problem is. When you surf on internet, your browser always send OS version, browser name, browser version, accepted languages, etc... It's the user agent. Have you already see an agreement message in Internet Explorer, Firefox or Safari asking if you agree to send your technical details to all websites?
I insist again that piwigo will not send user technical details, but hoster technical details (it is what wordpress do).


P@t

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#19 2010-12-14 18:58:22

grum
Piwigo Team
Nantes
2007-09-10
1371

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

Two things :
- the message is direct and orientied : too much technical and users won't understand the aim of this action
- the message is not on the right place


I think something like this is preferable :

To improve Piwigo's functionnalities, we need to know some information about your Piwigo' environment, like PHP version and database engine.
When you update/install your gallerie, some technical data are sent anonymously to piwigo.org :
- go here to know more about our policies
- click here to see what is sent
- click here to deactivate/activate this functionnality

The message can be displayed :
- while the install process
- on the galerie update process

If we want the option can be activated/deactivated (I think it's better if the user can deactivate it but if it can't, he must be informed), the best place is a new tab 'Piwigo.org survey" (or something like this) in the admin [config / general] page.


My pictures with Piwigo, of course !
[ www.grum.fr ] [ photos.grum.fr ]

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#20 2010-12-15 11:45:11

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

- the message is not on the right place

Gotcha told me the same thing and I don't agree. The data are sent when performing an http request on piwigo.org/ext/api/get_version_list.php as long as you don't open the "other available plugins" screen, nothing is sent to piwigo.org. (this is also true for available themes/languages)

I don't want this message on the install form. It is far too long. The install form must be kept as simple as possible. But I agree to have this message on the installation result page. But that means the technical data can't be sent during install. In the automatic upgrade page, why not. What about the users who don't use the automatic upgrade? and those who don't use the installation screen for installation (think about installation from Debian package) They would have no message at all.

I agree that your message is better because it's less technical and it means that by default the feature is activated and that users must perform an action to deactivate it.

I keep thinking the right place is on "other available plugins" screen. What about displaying the grum message (slightly modified because data are not sent during gallery install/update) only if the message has never been displayed. And the feature activated by default. That way, users are informed and only those who really don't want to send these data will deactivate it.


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#21 2010-12-15 11:49:51

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

another point : on my last screenshot, I used the "warnings" color and icons, I can also add an "infos" box.

http://fr.piwigo.org/doc/lib/plugins/wrap/images/note/48/info.png


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#22 2010-12-15 13:21:58

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

Here is what I propose:

http://piwigo.org/forum/showimage.php?pid=117638&filename=hosting_details_question-v2.png

The message is displayed only once. If the user doesn't click to deactivate, then it becomes active.


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#23 2010-12-15 18:40:40

grum
Piwigo Team
Nantes
2007-09-10
1371

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

plg wrote:

The message is displayed only once. If the user doesn't click to deactivate, then it becomes active.

I'm not sure to understand...
There is no panel to choose to activate or deactivate ? The message is displayed once, and after choice is made for ever ?? o_O;


No informations (link) about policie on statistics ?

Ok for the message (just, add a <br> between [...]database engine. and When you search[...].


My pictures with Piwigo, of course !
[ www.grum.fr ] [ photos.grum.fr ]

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#24 2010-12-15 21:29:46

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

grum wrote:

I'm not sure to understand...
There is no panel to choose to activate or deactivate ? The message is displayed once, and after choice is made for ever ?? o_O;

No specific panel, that's exactly what I say. You have the message displayed only once. If you don't deactivate the feature at this moment, then you will have to edit the local/config/config.inc.php if you want to deactivate it.

grum wrote:

No informations (link) about policie on statistics ?

No, because there is currently no Privacy Policy on piwigo.org and there is no collect of personal data, only technical data about hosting, anonymously.


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#25 2010-12-16 22:01:32

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

This discussion shows that we do not share the same view on this feature. I consider it as a small feature that will help us (Piwigo coding team) to know when it's safe to switch to newer PHP/MySQL versions. I do not want to add this message at install/upgrade time because I consider it is not the right time for this, the install form must focus on installation and what is really useful at installation time.

I don't want to loose more time on such a feature. I don't want a dedicated configuration screen for this highly technical feature that only a tiny portion of Piwigo users will care about.

After discussion with P@t, I decide to remove it and to keep going with the same blindness we currently have about Piwigo technical hosting details. That's not a big deal, Piwigo can live without knowing and I don't want this tiny feature that is not critical for Piwigo to become the origin of a conflict in Piwigo team.

Let's focus on other features that are much more interesting I hope :-)


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#26 2010-12-17 11:46:53

grum
Piwigo Team
Nantes
2007-09-10
1371

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

Do as you want...

plg wrote:

Don't see any evil in this feature, I want to make it perfectly transparent. This collected data will be stored in a database on piwigo.org server.

Please, feel free to post your comment about this feature.

My feelings :
- there is nothing perfectly transparent for the final user
- why opening a public topic on the forum and taking time to give answers if decisions are finally taken outside the forum ?

Next time, I think we can implement any features like this without asking feeling of users/team members.


My pictures with Piwigo, of course !
[ www.grum.fr ] [ photos.grum.fr ]

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#27 2011-07-01 14:10:03

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13182

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil


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#28 2011-07-06 09:16:00

J.Commelin
Member
2011-01-08
36

Re: automatic survey on PHP/MySQL versions, no evil

That's great news! Congratulations!
Sometimes big brothers are helpful (-;

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