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#1 2009-12-04 20:12:29

nicolas
Former Piwigo Team
2004-12-30
1213

Improve localization

Hi all,

in order to manage localization easier I think it could be a real good enhancement to use gettext. For people you don't yet know what is it, I could say that gettext is a kind of package on which many tools, libraries and documentation are very well integrated to make life of translators a pleasure.

With gettext, all is much simplier :
- developpers don't care about localization. They only manage internationalization of string by using special syntax.
- translators can translate strings from one language (not only english) to another ones !

Why using gettex  ? Because it's a standard and many tools exist to help us using it.

What do you think about it ?

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#2 2009-12-04 20:45:05

ddtddt
Piwigo Team
Quetigny - France
2007-07-27
7056

Re: Improve localization

This seems a very good idea.

I find that although we try an important test by install online ettext with ploader for all to see the result


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#3 2009-12-04 20:56:29

VDigital
Former Piwigo Team
Paris (FR)
2005-05-04
17680

Re: Improve localization

If I remember well...

I open a topic about poedit and gettext.
I did not receive many replies or a lot of support.

I re-read topics from Jillij about localisation in WordPress and in Piwigo. He said that it was better in Piwigo.
Now I know what he was speaking about.

Gettext is better than the current solution, and switching language is better structured in Piwigo.

I support the best of both.


Being able to switch in a simple process (Piwigo).
Really cut dependencies between core and languages (gettext).

Thxs to nicolas to raise this point one more time.


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#4 2009-12-04 21:04:35

nicolas
Former Piwigo Team
2004-12-30
1213

Re: Improve localization

ddtddt point to me severals points I missed : the main goal of a new tool is to allow many people to work on the same sets of translations like in launchpad. But I think it will be better to host that tool for many reasons.

I don't know such kind of tool (website). If anyone can find one, it could be great to test it.

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#5 2009-12-04 21:25:18

nicolas
Former Piwigo Team
2004-12-30
1213

Re: Improve localization

ddtddt wrote:

This seems a very good idea.

I find that although we try an important test by install online ettext with ploader for all to see the result

I think it could be a fisrt step before switching as pLoader already use .mo files (files that store translated strings) to manage localization.
An idea : add a new language with gettext tools like kbabel (on linux) or ??? on windows or ??? on Mac or ??? on your prefered platform ?
Others ideas ?

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#6 2009-12-05 01:51:49

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13571

Re: Improve localization

Switching to gettext sounds like a obvious step in Piwigo evolution. When i18n was implemented I was not aware of solutions like gettext were already existing. I think I've been aware of it for 5 years, at least. But I didn't try to switch Piwigo yet. Why? because the current system works very well in my own use and in other member of the coding team I suppose.

Reminder: the current system is a PHP file for each language with a big array $lang. $lang['key'] = 'value' (there are hundreds of keys). To load chinese language, include/common.inc.php calls the load_language function that perform a include('language/zh_CN/*.lang.php').

Piwigo is turning more and more international, ie Piwigo is available in more and more languages thanks to more and more translation contributors all over the world and ddtddt work (ddtddt performs 90% of commits related to the "language" directory). ddtddt's work as translation manager is mainly communication with translators and merging their work into Piwigo code. This is heavily manual as far as I understand it. But it would be good that ddtddt describes precisely his workflow (with an example) so that we understand what sucks and what needs to be improved.

The next big step in translation management is an online translation platform. Several hosted solutions already exist, like Launchpad (by Canonical, the house of Ubuntu). Another one is Pootle. If we want to host this platform on piwigo.org, I don't know yet which opensource application we could install and use. Deeper investigation is required.

With ddtddt, we've find some interesting work already done by others:

* Localize Drupal
* Translating WordPress

Some questions related to the use of gettext "standard":

* how does desktop clients like poedit manage the "there are 12 new strings to translate" or "23 strings have been modified in english, would like to review the corresponding strings in chinese?"
* VDigital, can you describe why gettext is not as good as PHP files when talking about "language switching"?
* how does Launchpad-like platform manages new or updated strings?

(other questions will come)

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#7 2009-12-05 01:53:41

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13571

Re: Improve localization

ron, can you create a Launchpad project for pLoader?

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#8 2009-12-05 09:10:40

VDigital
Former Piwigo Team
Paris (FR)
2005-05-04
17680

Re: Improve localization

Thanks Pierrick
I was unable to find Pootle yesterday.

If we could Test a Launchpad project, I agree.
But it means to use Bazaar, did I miss something.

Pootle is easier to implement and can be install in state of translator.piwigo.net...
Why not?

Old French topic: Pootle Ou Pas Pootle?


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#9 2009-12-05 09:13:56

ddtddt
Piwigo Team
Quetigny - France
2007-07-27
7056

Re: Improve localization


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#10 2009-12-06 01:07:31

plg
Piwigo Team
Nantes, France, Europe
2002-04-05
13571

Re: Improve localization

We have been working on this subject tonight with ddtddt and here is a summary of our private discussion:

* the best solution would be a web based translation manager, hosted on piwigo.org
* the number #1 purpose is to make translator life easier, the first step to start translating must be as tiny and easy as possible
* I remembered testing a very simple web form for translations on wordpress.com. I went back to translate.worpdress.com and... I discovered the GlotPress project. This is very interesting to me. ddtddt has tried to install GlotPress but currently fails to make it work.

My opinion concerning "piwigo.org/translate" versus "LaunchPad or Pootle hosted":

* (pro piwigo.org/translate) we can share forum user accounts
* (pro piwigo.org/translate) it may sound more "finished", because it would be integrated just like piwigo.org/forum or piwigo.org/ext are
* (pro piwigo.org/translate) a much better control on what's behind the web forms, we can imagin to make automatic integration into Subversion for example
* (pro Launchpad) senior translators may already know how to use Launchpad
* (pro Launchpad) making Piwigo visible on Launchpad may attract worldwide translators more than piwigo.org/translate
* (pro Launchpad) no "webmastering"

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#11 2009-12-06 09:27:11

VDigital
Former Piwigo Team
Paris (FR)
2005-05-04
17680

Re: Improve localization

plg wrote:

* the best solution would be a web based translation manager, hosted on piwigo.org

http://www.code-styling.de/english/deve … ization-en

I think we shouldn't build a plugin based on that one, don't you?

Build a gallery with this plugin active.

Gallery based on:
- Piwigo.org
- Piwigo.org/forum user
- Piwigo stable release
- As much as possible repository plugins "Installed" and maybe not active

Codestyling-localization access based on confirmed access members.
Codestyling-localization could add a gallery page only for translations (NO ACCESS in Admin for translator).

This idea is meeting grum's first plugin logic.
This plugin interface is pleasant to anyone, and simple as much we like.


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