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#1 2018-03-23 11:49:59

LouLin
Member
2018-03-23
4

IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Hello,

I work for a small NGO with a large photo library. We are currently looking for a tool especially to facilitate searching (and finding!) photos in our library. There are a number of things that have made us look at Piwigo as a potential solution for us: Open Source, handles large volumes of photos, search, albums, browsing, etc.

A large number of our photos have already been tagged using IPTC metadata, especially the keywords. So what we are looking for is a tool that allows us to search for photos, primarily using the IPTC keywords as search terms. This is where it starts getting a little bit unclear to me. If I understand correctly, the tags used for the search in Piwigo are not IPTC keywords.

I have seen in the forums and documentation that there are plugins that makes it possible to work to some extent with IPTC metadata; for example the Write Metadata [extension by plg] Write Metadata and the read_metadata [extension by ddtddt] read_metadata plugins (Advanced Metadata [extension by grum] Advanced Metadata had the last revision in 2012 so I guess that may not be the best option anymore?) I have also seen some feedback on e.g. integrating camera data into the search.

On the user_documentation:metadata page it says that: “Using keywords is an excellent way to organise your photos, and even to create 'SmartAlbums' (similar to LR's 'Smart Collection'). Keywords can be used for search filtering in the Batch Manager. If you already use keywords in Lightroom or other photo software suites, this mapping will make your life much easier.”

BUT the same page further up says about the IPTC metadata that “Since it is not integrated into the Piwigo database, you cannot use it to sort or search your photos”.

All in all it seems clear that there definitely are some things that can be done in Piwigo with IPTC metadata. But having read a good deal on the forums etc. I still do not feel 100% sure whether it is actually possible to customize Piwigo in a way that would make it possible to:

1)    Easily upload photos with the existing IPTC metadata (incl keywords) intact, visible and editable.

I assume this is at least partially a yes, based among others on the section of ‘showing more metadata’ on the user_documentation:metadata page that shows a little bit of code that needs to be added in order to display IPTC metadata, and select which fields will be visible.  I just need to make sure that we can edit (add, delete, etc) the metadata, especially the keywords, also after photos have been uploaded

2)    Use IPTC metadata, especially keywords, for the search – and combine keywords in the search e.g. by Boolean operators or something similar.

Unfortunately I get this impression that this is not possible – e.g. the user_documentation:metadata page states as mentioned above about IPTC metadata that ‘Since it is not integrated into the Piwigo database, you cannot use it to sort or search your photos’

And when I say “customize” I mean by using already existing plugins etc – we unfortunately do not have anyone in-house who would be able to start working on a new plugin.

We would love to make the step to start using Piwigo, but of course since we are already heavily invested in the use of IPTC keywords we would of course have to know that they can be used before making that step.
I would love to hear more about the extent to which it is possible to use IPTC metadata with Piwigo, but the two questions above really are the most important for us to hopefully be able to make the decision to start using Piwigo.

Thank you very much for your help,
Lou

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#2 2018-03-23 16:39:51

ddtddt
Piwigo Team
Quetigny - France
2007-07-27
6796

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search


You love Piwigo so don't hesitate to participate, learn more on the "Contribute to Piwigo" page. If you don't have much time for contribution, you can also help the project with a donation.

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#3 2018-03-23 19:57:18

executive
Member
2017-08-16
660

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

It is absolutely possible to do what you want. The whole section "Using your metadata to make Piwigo more powerful" explains how you can modify Piwigo to use keywords.

I have reworded that paragraph to make it more clear.

Last edited by executive (2018-03-23 20:09:06)

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#4 2018-03-26 12:13:58

LouLin
Member
2018-03-23
4

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Thank you very much for the positive feedback (and the rewording) - this is very encouraging!

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#5 2018-04-16 01:41:50

dd-b
Member
2018-04-16
28

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Oh, the bit about use_iptc_mapping?  Haven't been able to make it work yet, but just starting out; I'm going to upload some new photos I'm sure have various things and see what gets picked up.  I did at least manage to get IPTC data *displayed*, which is a start. (Synchronize doesn't seem to work the way I think, or something, hence trying uploading some new photos for test purposes.  Early days, I'm used to thrashing around with new software :-) ).

Given the need for mapping to existing Piwigo fields -- where can I find a list of what Piwigo fields exist?  (At least the ones it could potentially be useful to map IPTC data into).

I still can't find a way to *search* on keywords in any case, though.  Also, what about IPTC fields I think of as "event", "location", "city", "state", and "country"? I see GPS fields but not not basic location, and most of my photos have traditional location fields and not GPS. 

(I'm working on some historical photo collections, I guess now for a non-profit rather than just on my own, and have somewhat similar needs to the original poster, though with the addition of location information.  I'm evaluating Piwigo and maybe some others, I haven't yet installed coppermine or zenphoto.)

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#6 2018-04-16 04:01:37

executive
Member
2017-08-16
660

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

dd-b wrote:

Owhere can I find a list of what Piwigo fields exist?

Whatever you see on a photo's properties page.

dd-b wrote:

I still can't find a way to *search* on keywords

It's a batch manager filter.

dd-b wrote:

what about IPTC fields I think of as "event", "location", "city", "state", and "country"?

you could convert them to keywords/tags.

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#7 2018-04-18 03:34:32

dd-b
Member
2018-04-16
28

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Can I convert them to tags automatically on import and whenever resynchronization is run?  That might actually work.  I still want the search form to be much more specific, though (here and in zenphoto both).  I don't have *time* to start rewriting software!

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#8 2018-04-18 11:27:46

executive
Member
2017-08-16
660

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

dd-b wrote:

Can I convert them to tags automatically on import and whenever resynchronization is run?

Yes, but it requires modifying Piwigo code.
http://piwigo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=28203
See #3

dd-b wrote:

I still want the search form to be much more specific

meaning ....

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#9 2018-04-20 04:48:59

dd-b
Member
2018-04-16
28

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Changing code is what i do for a living, though PHP isn't my primary tool much.  So doing a little fixing up is possibly on the agenda, if I decide that's the way to get what I want.

What I mean about the search form is I want to be able to specifically compare to the city field, or the state field, as well as text matching in any of a group of fields (which is *also* useful).  I don't want false positives from "Wyoming Knott" the person (fictional character, at least the one I'm thinking of) confusing a search for photos taken in Wyoming for example.  This kind of thing is more important IMHO in virtual albums defined by searches than in searches for human use, but of some consequence both ways.

Oh, and *dates* especially need to be handled separately, since you need to be able to search on inequalities (" before 1914 ", or "between 1970 and 1979").

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#10 2018-04-20 05:48:48

executive
Member
2017-08-16
660

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

I don't think you can search date ranges, but you can apply filters (with dates, tags etc.) to smart albums which are pretty powerful.


Uploaded Images

Last edited by executive (2018-04-20 05:52:37)

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#11 2018-04-21 05:00:45

dd-b
Member
2018-04-16
28

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Okay, I've missed a whole area of logic that can be applied to smart albums, it looks like.  Do you have to define the album first and then go back and refine it with filters, or something?  I don't remember seeing any such options on the path I took creating albums.

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#12 2018-04-21 12:05:53

executive
Member
2017-08-16
660

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Yes

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#13 2018-04-24 04:16:50

dd-b
Member
2018-04-16
28

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Okay, updating the exif and iptc fields used and how they map to database fields.  New fields get displayed with photos, but synchronize finds zero albums and zero photos, although there's an album with a couple of hundred photos I can browse through.  Does synchronize not find albums uploaded through the site, but only those uploaded with ftp, maybe?  I could try that I suppose, but the web site is the obvious way to upload files.

Will look at adding the code to turn location into labeled tags next, I guess, when I get this bit working (and play with filtering dynamic albums).

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#14 2018-04-24 04:31:50

executive
Member
2017-08-16
660

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

Uploading through the web portal synchronizes automatically. There's no need to synchronize manually.

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#15 2018-04-25 02:17:09

dd-b
Member
2018-04-16
28

Re: IPTC keywords usage - editing, search

When I change the code to import new tags, it doesn't seem to synchronize old photos uploaded through the web portal, though (nor would I expect it to).  Is there no way to get that done?  Admittedly after the initial phases I'm unlikely to be updating the code every week, but every year or two maybe.

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