this look similar with BPG
https://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html , implementation of polyfill seems simple, the min.js version is 200kB and you can see in the example docs what role each JS have [Github] libbpg file html/index.html@L5-L7
Demo http://xooyoozoo.github.io/yolo-octo-bu … &bpg=m
Code https://github.com/mirrorer/libbpg

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but for HEIF i find the examples in using polyfill more complicated.
https://github.com/nokiatech/heif/tree/gh-pages
they are many JS files and no explanation which ones need to be loaded, why and how. the min.js version seems to be 770kB ... quite big compared with BPG.
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unfortunately no browser support BPG or HEIF.
as demonstrated for WebP using a polyfill actually making webpage loading harder for the client then using a much bigger JPEG
https://davidwalsh.name/webp-images-performance -> https://mattshull.com/webptests.pdf

so until this kind of formats get native browser support i don't think it's a good idea to implement them.

Last edited by eliz82 (2018-01-04 13:29:18)

Thanks for sharing. It sounds like pieces are falling into place.

eliz82 wrote:

but for HEIF i find the examples in using polyfill more complicated.
https://github.com/nokiatech/heif/tree/gh-pages
they are many JS files and no explanation which ones need to be loaded, why and how. the min.js version seems to be 770kB ... quite big compared with BPG.

seems i have missed their wiki page: https://github.com/nokiatech/heif/wiki/ … ementation

P.S.
BPG is already supported by imagemagick https://www.imagemagick.org/script/form … #supported , and their polyfill is 3.5x smaller then HEIF polyfill. so if someone want to make a more efficient file format for Piwigo i think he can already do it.

flop25 wrote:

well not really https://caniuse.com/#search=heif ...

yeah, accessing that exact address was the first thing that i did after reading the original post. :)

he probably refer at the end of the year 2018 :)

... but i doubt it. after yesterday spending a few hours reading some history about finding a modern picture and video standard for the web, I doubt Chrome and Firefox will adopt this. they have a long history in not adopting Apple standards.

which is somehow annoying for us the users and developers ... look at this guys ... 30 years after the jpeg format release and they are not able to get along and create a more efficient open-source picture standard for the web, when technical solution are on the table years ago (example BPG)

not even Google is to be trusted, they released WebP as "open-standard" free to use, but with the note that if are sued by other company for patent claims (related to other things??) they will sue that company for WebP usage ... so a kind of blackmail. no wonder Mozilla and Microsoft didn't want to adopt WebP for their browsers.

Last edited by eliz82 (2018-01-04 15:18:43)

eliz82 wrote:

I doubt Chrome and Firefox will adopt this. they have a long history in not adopting Apple standards.

After hours of reading, you concluded that HEIF is Apple's standard? I think you need to read more carefully.

Browser roadmaps aren't set in stone, are they?

By the sounds of it, BPG is dead.
Unlike HEIF, I don't think BPG and WebP were ISO compliant.

teekay wrote:

I guess a vital step is having support for it in ImageMagick:
[Github] ImageMagick issue #507

And of course in libgd:
[Github] libgd issue #395

When that happened, PHP supports HEIF, and so does Piwigo.

All that's left after that point is support for it in all major browsers.
I guess we can get back to this topic in 5+ years.

perfect summary

The foundation for your 'Apple' argument is weak. HEVC is a collaboration. Claiming it is Apple's is like saying AAC belongs to Dolby.

eliz82 wrote:

isn't HEIF a container that contain one or more HVEC encoded images

I think most people here understand that we are talking about the entire file format for the purposes of displaying on the web in this topic, no? But if you want to get technical about it: no, HEIF does not just define the container.

From wiki: "The HEIF specification also defines the means of storing High Efficiency Video Codec (HEVC)-encoded intra images". (among others)

The  HEIF container is compatible with ISOBMFF, which was developed by MPEG. ISOBMFF is based on Apple Quicktime. That is very different from saying HEIF is Apple's.

eliz82 wrote:

2) the encoder - HVEC
http://www.mpegla.com/Lists/MPEG%20LA%2 … 9-29.pdf#2
Apple is the first company on that list.

You are funny. So the word apple begins with an 'a', therefore it means the standard belongs to Apple? Take a look at all the HVEC patents in the MPEG-LA:
http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/HEV … c-att1.pdf
Apple's portion fits less than one page, out of a 91 page document.  Read carefully means beyond the first line/page.

I do share some of your skepticism. We have seen distribution media wars before where file formats fall by the wayside into obscurity, but I think HEIF will take off, and I'll tell you why.

Mobile devices will dominate the marketplace. Mobile devices have limited memory. Much effort is going into advancing computational photo/filmography. (HDR, 3D, AR/VR, depth mapping, stitching, non destructive editing, transparency, resolution enhancing and many other signal processing techniques) We need a way to store all that metadata, and JPEG is too tired for that. Much of HEVC infrastructure, both hardware and software, is already well in place. Intel, AMD, ARM, Qualcomm, NVidia and other  chips already have HEVC codecs. Windows 10 already has HEVC codecs. Samsung is an asset holder in HEVC. Both Android and iOS devices support it in hardware and software. Google photos supports HEIF images too.

When Apple endorsed AAC encoded audio with iTunes, it was pushed into the mainstream. It is now THE standard that everybody uses. I don't particularly like Apple's ethics, but they are notorious for pushing progress (for better or for worse).

That all being said, HEIF will certainly never completely replace JPEG, any more than MP3s have been replaced. They will coexist. Heck, maybe HEIF will be superseded by something even better, sooner than we think.

eliz82 wrote:

Mozilla developers already stated opinion about implementing a picture format based on HVEC encoding: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.c … 111277#c13

That statement is for BPG, and it's two years old. HEVC is free.
http://x265.org/hevc-advance-announces- … -software/

Last edited by executive (2018-01-06 01:11:20)

It is difficult to know when HEIV will be available on our Piwigo servers, for sure.
A good news is that the current iOS app is ready ;-)